Does She Love our College?

As part of the AP Committee’s desire to proactively discuss ethics, we will be sending out monthly “case studies.” In these cases, we will offer a situation and discuss whether the issue is in compliance with NACAC’s Statement of Principles of Good Practices (SPGP). Thanks to Jake Talmage, Director of College Counseling at St. Paul’s School and PCACAC AP Committee Chair, for this month’s case. If you have a question about a situation or SPGP, please contact a member of the AP Committee.

February Case: A high school counselor is working in her office when the phone rings. On the other line is an admission officer from Cupid College who visited the school the past few years and has developed a strong professional relationship with the counselor. After exchanging pleasantries, the admission officer asks, “Can you tell me about Applicant Adele? I love her music, and think she would be a great addition. But, does she love our college? It would really help me in committee knowing that we are one of her top colleges.”

Is this situation compliant with NACAC’s SPGP?

Discussion: At first blush, this seems like an easy case—don’t ask students, or counselors, for a rank order. But delve a little deeper, and the water gets murky.

According to NACAC SPGP II B 2. “All postsecondary members agree they will: not ask candidates, their schools, their counselors or others to list or rank order their college or university preferences on applications or other documents.”  However, was this a ranking? Maybe, maybe not. Furthermore, this was done as a phone call—it is not an application or document. Is this ethical?

If we look to another section, we can find additional guidance on this issue. According to NACAC SPGP III B 5. “All counseling members agree they will: not reveal, unless authorized, candidates’ college or university preference.” Thus, by asking this question, the admission officer might have put her colleague in an ethical quandary which could be quite uncomfortable. Does the counselor truly know the interest of the student? Has she been authorized to release that information? Would the situation be as difficult if the question was worded differently (for example, “Is she still interested?” instead of “Does she love my college?”)?

Conclusion:  This is a grey area. Although not technically a breach of SPGP, the situation approaches SPGP guidelines for college admission officers and counselors. And, it could make counselors uncomfortable. Perhaps the college admission officer did not even realize the quandary being put on the counselor.

Even though this situation may not be in technical conflict with SPGP, the counselor could contact the AP Committee to discuss the issue. Even if there were not an allegation, the AP Committee might contact the Dean/Director of the college to let them know that a concern had been raised. The student, counselor and school asking the question would be kept confidential, but this could help educate the admission staff about the issues placed on school counselors by such calls.

Want to review previous case studies?

View all of the Admissions Practices Case Studies here.

2015 Student Support Grant: A trip the the Baltimore NACAC Fair

Our Student Support Grant Experience

Christine Shaughnessy, MEd

School Counselor Daw-Harr, Department Chair

Severna Park High School (MD)

Armed with all of the tools necessary to conquer a college fair, 28 Severna Park High School juniors and seniors embarked on a trip to Baltimore, for the Fall 2015 NACAC College Fair.  The pre-identified group was comprised of African American and FARMS students. The Likert scale indicated a good sense of what schools they would like to apply to, but very little understanding of the process, ways to prepare, how to choose, and they confessed that they had not researched.   After determining that these two student populations were sometimes underprepared to take on the college application process at SPHS, the day was designed to provide students with the knowledge, and confidence to take next steps in selecting a college.  

Students met in the early morning for breakfast, data collection, background information, and guidelines for the day.  They completed a pre-test to assess the comfort level and knowledge of the college admissions world.  During our morning workshop, we covered the basics.  Research would be our main focus for the day, but they would also learn what type of college they might be interested in and how to identify those factors that are most important.  Students reviewed the steps of the admissions process and were given a master list of participating schools.  From there, they designed their own list of eight schools they were to visit with that day.  They were feeling prepared and were excited to head out. 

Upon our arrival, we saw hundreds of eager students waiting for the doors to open.  And, at the strike of 10 am, they rushed off, with maps in hand.  They were on their own!  The two hours went quickly and we met for our lunch and debrief.  The students were elated on the return ride to school.  Conversations about academics, applications, and potential schools were floating through the air.   

When they returned to school, they took their post-test and the results were fantastic.  Cumulatively, the students increased their knowledge base and comfort level by 77%.  The largest gains were in “I know where I want to apply.”  In the future however, improvements would need to include, “I know what to do to prepare.”  Meeting with this targeted group will need to start much earlier.

Thank you so much to PCACAC and the SSG.  Our students were very appreciative!

About Student Support Grant (SSG):

PCACAC recognizes that members may not always have the financial resources to implement student programming.  To address this need, in spring 2013 PCACAC began offering the Student Support Grant (SSG) to help underwrite worthwhile initiatives that directly benefit students in the college transition process.

PCACAC members may apply by early March each year for a Student Support Grant to help fund their own student projects. They may also wish to nominate a community member whose volunteer work nurtures college readiness.  Successful SSG applicants will propose events directly benefiting students, such as trips to college campuses, money for student college counseling or financial aid workshops, and college programs to host prospective student groups.  New and creative ideas are welcome!

Profile: Samuel Shoge

Samuel T. Shoge

Assistant Director of Admissions

Washington College (MD)

Chair, Government Relations Committee - PCACAC

How long have you been in admissions/college counseling? Share your journey story!

4.5 years at Washington College. 

How did you get started in college counseling/admissions?

I happened to apply to a vacant admissions counselor position at Washington College a couple months after graduating from college. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and there just so happened to be an opening at Washington College where I lived 5 minutes away from. I kind of got caught up in how fast things moved because 3 days after applying, I had an interview and an offer. It was hard to say no to my first job offer right out of college. My first day on the job was attending Summer Institute at Bucknell.

What's your favorite admissions/counseling memory?

My favorite admissions stories revolve around working hard to recruit students you know would be excellent fits at your institution. Nothing beats seeing that student deposit after a long journey of meeting them at their high school, seeing them on campus for tours, and counseling their parents through the FAFSA process. 

What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue leadership (or membership) in PCACAC and/or NACAC?

For those looking to get more involved with PCACAC and NACAC, the best thing to do is dive right on in. I see to many people express the desire to get involved but hesitate because they overthink the time commitment and their schedule. Look, everyone is busy in this profession but if you really want to make connections in this profession, get your name out there as a mover and shaker, and make some great friends, you just simply have to get involved. Yes, it is A LOT of work and requires true organization skills but it's a time commitment that pays dividends in this professions and one can honestly look at it as an investment. 

If not working in admissions/college counseling, what else could you see yourself pursuing? 

I eventually see myself doing something that revolves around city planning/public policy/public administration. 

What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

One thing a lot of people don't know is that I am training to be a volunteer firefighter.

What's a current trend or future issue you're passionate about right now? And why?

Affordability is the name of the game right now in terms of trends and issues I am following closely. I like how it is a hot-button issue in national politics and being addressed by state legislators. As someone who graduated with student loan debt, I am a first hand example of how so many things in life have to be delayed because of student loan payments. A political figure cannot reasonably talk about fixing the US economy without addressing the student loan issue. An entire generation delaying or canceling major purchases because of student loan obligations is no way to get the economy back on track, especially when that economy depends on modest population growth and people buying cars, homes, and just stuff in general. 

Profile: Lucy Neale Duke

Lucy Neale Duke

Assistant Director of College Counseling

McDonogh School

Owing Mills, MD

How long have you been in admissions/college counseling? Share your journey story!

I joined Georgetown University's admission staff in 1982.  After two years there, I moved to the secondary side and spent 11 years at Connelly School of the Holy Child in Potomac, MD. Next, eight years home with my children, and then I re-entered the college counseling world at City College, Baltimore's humanities magnet high school.  After three years at City, I read very part-time for Hopkins's admission office and then went to Cristo Rey Jesuit High School, where I founded the college counseling office. I left CRJ after six years, and tried a year of mostly-retirement, only to land back at McDonogh School this year, where I enjoy working as a part-time Assistant Director of College Counseling.

How did you get started in college counseling/admissions?

I was a history major with vague notions of going to law school, although I'd also met with my university's admission dean for an information interview while I was still in college. I did NOT enjoy my first job in DC as a legal assistant at a large, corporate firm, and I found myself thinking a lot about my own college counselor and an admission dean from a college I didn't attend, both of whom were exceptionally helpful to me when I applied to college.  So, I contacted Georgetown, they had a few openings in admissions, and here I am, almost 34 years later.

What's your favorite admissions/counseling memory?

Too many to choose, but here's a sample: Visiting my former college counselor (who'd moved to a different independent school) as a Georgetown admission rep - he kindly treated me with professional deference, even though I'd been on the job for two months. My helpful and fun colleagues at DC-area independent schools in the 1980s and early 1990s. The freezing cold PCACAC conference luncheon at The Carousel where we sat atop a thin plywood floor covering the ice rink, the last time our conference was in Ocean City. Renewing friendships with admission and counseling colleagues after my eight year hiatus. Sitting with a City College senior as she called her grandmother in tears to tell her she'd won a scholarship and could afford to attend college (I was a puddle). CRJ's first graduation in 2011, with everyone heading off to two-and four-year colleges. Seeing many first gen students thrive and grow in college and beyond.

What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue leadership (or membership) in PCACAC and/or NACAC?

PCACAC members are generous, experienced and well-informed. When I returned to college counseling after eight years at home with my children, it was huge to still have professional connections and friends who remembered me through PCACAC; they helped me get up to speed. Volunteering with PCACAC and/or seeking office is a great way to become a better counselor and to learn more about the profession.

If not working in admissions/college counseling, what else could you see yourself pursuing? 

Not sure!

What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

My most popular hors d'oeuvre is my mother's cheese pennies recipe.

What's a current trend or future issue you're passionate about right now? And why?

Access, and all its components: quality education and counseling starting in Pre-K; financial aid; college counseling for low-income, first generation students; effective college retention and graduation programs.

Profile: Aaron Arenas

Aaron A. Arenas

Admissions Counselor, Freshman Admissions

Enrollment Management & Student Success

Drexel University

How long have you been in admissions/college counseling? Share your journey story!

Professionally, this is my second year working in admissions for Drexel University in Philadelphia, PA. I’m originally from Virginia, but made my way to Philly for this job at Drexel. I knew a lot of friends from college who were from the Philadelphia/South Jersey area and were always raving about how great it was, so I thought I’d check it out myself and haven’t regretted my decision.

How did you get started in college counseling/admissions?

My first taste of college admissions was actually during my undergrad experience at George Mason University when I was a student ambassador for the admissions office there. That experience, as well as other experiences I had as a student leader in undergrad, had an impact on me in trying to figure out what I wanted to do after I graduated from college. I knew I wanted to work in education and work closely with students to help them figure out what their future plans should be after they graduated from high school. This all lead me to explore a possible job in admissions, which landed me at Drexel.

What's your favorite admissions/counseling memory?

Although I’ve only been working professionally in college admissions for two years, I’ve developed a ton of memories and experiences that would make it seem as if I have been working for 10+ years. Out of all of them though, I don’t think anything tops working an Accepted Students Day at Drexel. I find myself driven by excitement and “hype”, so being able to see hundreds of students who are excited to be at Drexel and are looking forward to going to college is definitely a reminder as to why I’m so passionate about education and student life. Seeing students walk into our admissions office who are ready to submit the enrollment deposit, then seeing the smile on their face after it’s done, knowing they were going to be a Drexel Dragon, is probably one of the most rewarding looks you could ever see on a student’s face. That makes this job all worth it.

What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue leadership (or membership) in PCACAC and/or NACAC?

Do it! I think the network opportunities and the amount of knowledge you can get by attending conferences and college fairs is definitely helpful in professional development. A lot of us who work in education, constantly tell students to get involved and become leaders. It’s only right that we practice what we preach!

If not working in admissions/college counseling, what else could you see yourself pursuing? 

Hmmm….. I have SO MANY interests that it can be a bit difficult to point out one thing that I could possibly pursue at any given time. At this point in time, I think it would be something in either politics or sports. I don’t see myself running for a political office and being the face of a campaign, but to be able to work on a campaign and game plan behind the scenes is definitely something I would enjoy. I am also a sports junkie, so pursuing something in professional sports or college athletics, like scouting or athletic recruitment, is something I would like to do.   

What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

I think it would be that my number one passion is cooking. It’s definitely a great stress reliever and a way to just remove myself from the “real” world for a moment. Being able to try out new recipes and altering others is a great way to get my creative juices going. I’m by no means a five-star chef nor do I see myself as the best cook in the world, but, in terms of passion, I like to see myself as a poor man’s Gordon Ramsay with a lot less yelling and cursing.

What's a current trend or future issue you're passionate about right now? And why?

Something that I’ve always been passionate about is college preparedness and retention within a higher educational institution. There are a lot of students out there who are not necessarily ready to tackle the college experience and sometimes drop out or fail college because of this. This definitely isn’t the fault of any one particular section of the student lifecycle, but to be able to work in conjunction with high school counselors, admissions representatives, student affairs staff, and college academic departments to help bridge any gaps is definitely something that I think is important for both the college and the student’s sake.

Profile: Olander Fleming

Olander Fleming

Assistant Director of Admissions

Longwood University

How long have you been in admissions/college counseling? Share your journey story!

I’m in my sixth year working in admissions at Longwood University.

How did you get started in college counseling/admissions?

Being an admissions counselor wasn’t on my radar as a potential job after I graduated.  A friend from college called me a few weeks after graduation and said his father (then Dean of Admissions at Longwood) was wrapping up a search for a bilingual recruiter who didn’t mind traveling Maryland through Connecticut.  I graduated with a degree in Spanish from Hampden-Sydney College and knew I wanted to use the language in my profession, as long as it wasn’t teaching, so I applied.  I went through the interview process and was hired as the Admissions Counselor for Emerging Populations at LU.

What's your favorite admissions/counseling memory?

One of my favorite memories happened during an Accepted Student Open House a few years back.  Rewind a couple months before the program to mid-January when we did the “fun” phone-a-thons encouraging students to apply.  I called an individual to encourage her to apply as we had her transcripts and test scores and her application was the last document we needed to make a decision.  Fast forward to the Open House, her mother approached me to thank me for the call to her daughter.  I was unaware the student was suffering from a variety of health issues her senior year and with each set-back, saw her dream of attending college slowly fade away.  My phone call encouraging her to apply brightened her day and motivated her to finish the year off strong.  I was glad she approached me as it helped show there are some things in admissions we sometimes don’t care to do and aren’t as motivated to complete but if we give it a 100%, it could mean the world to a student.

What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue leadership (or membership) in PCACAC and/or NACAC?

Don’t be afraid to network. If you have a passion or consider yourself an “expert” or “the best” on that subject, seek ways you can participate in regional or national leadership/conferences to offer your expertise.  If you aren’t sure where to begin, approach someone who holds a leadership position and ask them about their journey from where they began to where they are now. 

If not working in admissions/college counseling, what else could you see yourself pursuing? 

One of my minors was in International Affairs and as a final project I researched and presented on the disappearance of the Afro-Argentine in Argentina.  If you’ve ever visit the country, you’ll notice it isn’t a very diverse country when it comes to skin color.  What I found that while the color of their skin was much lighter than most of Latin America, some people had physical features more similar to those of African descent.  There isn’t much published information available on the subject so if not working in admissions, I could see myself in Argentina conducting more research on the Afro-Argentine. 

What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

I love to collect baseballs from stadiums, museums, theme parks and cities I visit as I travel.  I’ve been doing so since high school and have them displayed in my house. 

What's a current trend or future issue you're passionate about right now? And why?

I’m very interested in providing information in Spanish to Hispanic families who need it.  The parents are a very tricky group to present to as some speak Spanish, others don’t. Some never attended college, others did but in another country.  A small percentage is undocumented or under DACA status. No matter what their background is, the Hispanic population is growing and consists of a large number of individuals who don’t know much about the higher education system here.  There aren’t many resources available in Spanish that cover the college search process and financial aid and I enjoy being called upon to help share information on the process.

Profile: Hannah Wolff

Hannah Wolff

College & Career Center Specialist

Langley High School (VA)

How long have you been in admissions/college counseling? Share your journey story!

I have been college counseling for seven years in Fairfax County. I started at West Springfield High School, and transferred over to Langley four years ago.

How did you get started in college counseling/admissions?

Prior to moving to Virginia, I worked in New Hampshire as the Director of an early college awareness program for middle school students. Then I worked as a motivational speaker for a campaign working to increase teen aspiration rates in the state of Vermont. I traveled the entire state and met with over 9,000 students in grades 6-12. While I loved working with kids, I was never sure how much of an impact I was truly having on them, and I really wanted to pursue a job that allowed me to help students through the entire college process.

What's your favorite admissions/counseling memory?

I have several of them, but I think my favorite is working with a student late in his senior year, who had never really thought he was "college material". I helped him through the entire process, including studying for senior year mid-terms, as he was struggling with astronomy, a subject I know little about! He is currently in graduate school and already has a job secured after graduation.

What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue leadership (or membership) in PCACAC and/or NACAC?

Get involved! The networking and knowledge gained from being a part of PCACAC and NACAC make it easy to stay current in the world of college admissions. Attending conferences or drive-ins, volunteering for a committee, and utilizing the resources of PCACAC and NACAC will keep you feeling connected, supported and relevant.

If not working in admissions/college counseling, what else could you see yourself pursuing?

I have so many ideas, although I am not sure I would enjoy them quite as much as I do my current job. Something in the medical field I think, working with kids, or perhaps something working with rescued animals!

What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

I studied Radiation Therapy in college and I was an all New England saxaphone player (both of which were a LONG time ago)

What's a current trend or future issue you're passionate about right now? And why?

Trying to convince families and students that rankings are not equivalent to best fit schools! I don't know if I will ever win that battle, but if I can get families to look beyond the rankings to see how many amazing colleges are out there, then I may be doing something right!